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Mar 09, 2006

Early Running Of The Elephants: Rudi Awakening


Halle - lujah!

If "Hizzoner" was notably absent from this week's Republican beauty contest in Memphis, it was not because he's forsaken the South -- or the conservative fundies.  This pic accompanies Howard Fineman's latest.  The write up describes how Rudy Giuliani dropped in a few weeks ago at the annual convention of the Global Pastors Network in Florida.  According to Fineman:

He wowed them with his energy and his revival-style witness to his faith in Jesus. Ralph Reed, a godfather of religious conservatives, thinks Giuliani's charisma may help him overcome his social-issues liberalism in the Bible belt. "He can take control of a room better than any politician I've seen," said Reed. The key moment with the pastors was in the private holding room, where he spent quality time among their leaders.

"Revival-style witness to his faith in Jesus?"  Howard has got to stop smoking crack.

Yesterday morning's Rudi piece in WAPO (via restores some of the temperance:

What's not known is how many of those mostly core Republican voters are aware that the once-annulled, once-divorced, thrice-married Giuliani favors abortion rights, gay rights and gun control. (Giuliani's first marriage was annulled after 14 years when, he says, he discovered he was married to his second cousin.)

"Will the third marriage and the fact that his second wife called him an adulterer hurt him?" asked Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "It's clear he has an image as a very strong leader — what's not clear is if the Republican base knows about or cares about his views on social issues."

Good data, though does Mr. Brown believe for a second no one is going to make a screaming issue out of this moral train wreck? ( ...And what's up with that cousin business?)

Typically, I'm almost religious about avoiding straight parody with a photographers work.  Given the ludicrous factor, however, I couldn't keep my own nose out of it.


(image: Phelan M. Ebenhack / AP. Newsweek. March 13, 2006.


Great addition, BAG. It is sad that Xtian fundamentalists (like many of the rest of us) can be so easily duped by the form, and ignore the facts. I hope Mr. G's marital record is repeated often in the coming months. Popping the right for hypocracy is a sacred duty.

Fundamentalists have an unparallelled capacity for cognitive dissonance, so among the religious extremists, I doubt anything about Giuliani's personal life could make much of an impression. For the most part, they'll believe in who their pastors want them to believe in.

The good news is that this photograph makes Giuliani look ridiculous. We don't ordinarily see mainstream news images actually making fun of people in sincere positions of prayer or worship. People in such poses are only made to look ridicuous if we're to take them as (a) blatantly insincere or (b) completely off their rocker. How it's intended here, I'm not sure (although I suspect the former), but in either case, he's not being presented as someone to take seriously.

Then again, I should mention that I could never believe anyone would take those Bush-with-halo pictures seriously either, so I may be wrong.

Bag readers are obviously learn'd (thanks Russ); does anyone have any details on how Rudolphs mayorial election was interrupted by 9/11? Seem to remember that there was some hiatus around this one: anyone got definitive details on this one? picture would be grand

I like to see maximum usage of Rev. Hizzoner's drag photos throughout Amurika's Hole in the Soul land. If not Andrew Guiliani will be aping next to Chief "Justice" Roberts.

Also is there an estimate of many many adulterous liaisons that this Republican paragon has had?

In September 2001 Rudy was not running for re-election. He could not run because of term limits. There was supposed to be a primary on 9/11, but it was postponed because of the attacks. In the meantime, some people suggested that under the circumstances, Rudy ought to stay on as mayor beyond the end of his term, but the idea, which Rudy endorsed, got nowhere. Here's an article Time Magazine published about him when he was named Person of the Year.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about Rudy's politics, he was masterful after the attacks -- especially in comparison to the Mama's-Boy-in-Chief. On the other hand, I doubt that the fundies care about his 9/11 performance any more than they care about his "family values." The fundie voters will vote as they are told by their leaders, and the leaders will back whoever promises them money.

I just read somewhere that he was the favorite candidate in some poll, which surprised me.

Can he get accepted by the Christian Right if he makes a big show of repenting, like some of their ministers have done?

And why is being married to a second cousin a reason for annulment?

Although the popular mayor is barred by law from seeking a third consecutive term, Giuliani tells CBS News Anchor Dan Rather he's "open to the idea" of continuing in the job.

In an interview to air on CBS News' 60 Minutes II Wednesday night and 48 Hours Friday night, the mayor said, "I am open to the idea of doing it. I don't know yet the right way or the right thing to do, and I have to really consult and talk to the governor and other people that really have to have a voice and a role in figuring out how to do it."

The mayor said he and his staff "have developed all of this expertise, and this is the time the city needs it most."

Asked whether he's available to stay on past his current term, Giuliani answered, "Yes."

Giuliani's aides have been encouraging moves that might put him in the race, including a repeal of the term limits law.

The primary had been scheduled for Sept. 11, but was postponed after two jetliners toppled the twin towers, leaving the nation's largest city in chaos, its economy in jeopardy and more than 6,000 feared dead.

Some of the point was around this. This fellow seriously considered; and this was before M.Bloomberg jettisoned his democratic credentials...and ran?

Ummabdullah: did the prophet marry his cousin?

I agree with Zatopa about the fundies' disconnect with "reality." I was listening to a piece on All Things Considered about "values voters" in Florida the other day. Most of them said they agreed with Bush because they could understand his faith and thought it genuine. They thought his absolute faith was more important than his administrative ineptness. One woman compared him to a spouse, saying her relationship with Bush was one of unconditional support. She said she might not always be happy with a spouse, but it's her calling to still love him and support him.

This is probably an insensitive remark, but I get the impresson that these voters would rather MARRY Bush than care if he were really an appropriate administrator for the state. They love him THAT MUCH, apparently. No matter what shit-hole he drags them into, they will sit in the passenger seat and put on a smile, unquestioning. That is apprently what "faith" and "love" means, and I'm so separated from their version of those concepts I can't imagine living in their heads.

These pictures are further proof as to what lengths politicians will go to pander to the Christian fundamentalist crowd. God has become the State to these people in a way Marx or Trotsky would probably find humorous (or not, they're dead and I can't ask 'em). I really don't think these people will care if Giuliani's hypocrisy is aired openly and repeatedly, because they love the State no matter what, apparently.

The BAG totally nailed this image! Rudy is performing here, doing tricks like a trained circus animal.

He's hardly "liberal," and his brand of extremism will appeal easily to many on the Right. He doesn't need the fundamentalists, so I don't understand why he's engaged in this particular performance. Fuckin' pathetic is all I can come up with.

There's a *mountain* of dirt out there on Giuliani, big as Staten Island's Fresh Kills Landfill, so if you really want to know the dirt, do some rummaging in the archives of the Village Voice.

Technically there *was* a primary in New York City on 9/11/2001; I voted before I went to work that day.

I think my ex-mayor is way to east-cost-liberal to ever win the presidency-- It's too bad. He'd be so much better than the chimp or any other republican that might run-- he has populist bend that might even make him better than just about any democrat who is not Dean. Hell, I hated him when he was mayor but I think it'd be an outright revolution if he got in to the white house.

I don't think the picture looks silly-- I think it's pretty honest. The silly part is the Italian name Giuliani juxtaposed with this funky baptist pose he's striking. The only people I ever see acting like that are in Harlem or the heartland.

Have we ever had a single Italian in the Whitehouse? I don't think so. Come on people we could hardly handle one Irish guy in the 60s.

Martin, the Prophet (pbuh) did marry a cousin. It wouldn't have been a big deal because it's not prohibited in Islam. It's fairly common in many countries, even today. From what I understand, it's legal in Europe and in most states of the U.S., too; that's why I was curious... does the Catholic church prohibit marriage to a second cousin?

(OK, I looked it up. Apparently the Catholic Church once banned marriage to up to sixth cousins, but eventually got to the point where they ban only first-cousin marriages. From what I read, marriage between first cousins is not actually banned in the Bible, though.)

futurebird, please refrain from making any comments about people in Harlem, ever. Thanks. Also, it would be helpful if you could avoid making sweeping generalities based on strictly emotional responses unless you qualify them as such. Giuliani may have performed well during a crisis, but that doesn't qualify him as a good presidential candidate for any party.

A Fellow New Yorker

I don't think I said he'd make a good candidate. I think he's too east-coast for the US to stomach. I guess this pose is supposed to solidify him as something other than a city slicker but it's not going to fly. Even the glasses are a bad call-- too intellectual. The thing is I buy it. But, I'm not the target audience here.

PS RTBAG: I hope you aren't suggesting that calling Harlem a center of Baptist activity in the city is somehow offensive or out of place. (?) Frankly I find all of the mocking of sincere faith on this thread troubling-- or maybe just a bit insensitive. You should go to a service-- it's reinvigorating.

forgot to close a tag.

futurebird, I'm saying I don't see anything complimentary in your original statement "The silly part is the Italian name Giuliani juxtaposed with this funky baptist pose he's striking. The only people I ever see acting like that are in Harlem or the heartland." Must be the words "silly," "funky," "pose," and "acting like that" that caused my misread.

Just an fyi, here's a great map showing concentrations of Baptists in the United States. Surely there are Baptists living everywhere, but New York and the Heartland just don't figure very prominently as hubs.

Actually Baptist are mostly in the south. A thing I tend to forget for some reason since a large number of black churches up north tend to be black-- and that's distorted my perspective.

I don't know much about the Methodists and Evangelicals etc. found in the midwest and west coast.

I just checked out " Pastors Network" (check out the "soul counter" ) Are these folks evangelicals-- you know the kind who aren't even really Protestants anymore? Or is this some kind of organization that unities many denominations?

Now as I think about it I'm starting to see the US as far more religiously diverse than I normally do. I wonder how aware people are of the rift between the "born again" and the more traditional protestant churches... hmm...

(I also just noticed the french cuffs on his shirt. Brooks Brothers? Forget it Rudy. .

Giuliani is a homosexual.
He was a frequent visitor to gay parties in NYC in the 1970s.
He married his cousin--an obvious beard; he married a newswoman for publicity; then--during the Clinton 'scandal,' he paraded his 'mistress' around in public while Flynt was exposing Republican adulterers. Giuliani was also in the hospital for prostrate cancer--IOW, sex was not on his
agenda. Image--again--was.
He's looking up--the racist bastard--at someone leaping from the WTC and saying "Thank God Geo Bush is the President!"--his RNC lie.
He lusts for Kerik.
Giuliani's best accomplishment for the Reds: He destroyed any attitude NYC had. It's all a shopping mall for fascists now.

For those seeking sources on Giuliani, check out Wayne Barrett's unflattering biography.
More Rudy:
--Lost 21 of 22 1st Amendment challenges by his nemesis, Robert Lederman, president of NYC ARTIST, an arts-activism group. (Yes, he arrests people who draw things.)
--He chose to live with his homosexual pals after dumping Donna Hanover, mother of his children.
--In a closeknit Italian family, would he really not know who his second cousin was?
--His second cousin had a black lover while married to Giuliani; we've speculated whether this is the cause of glee when his NYPD shocktroops killed and tortured numerous black people.

French cuffs and that born-again-and-luvin'-my-jesus look of rapture while under the lights is a great combo for a preacher about to fleece the flock. (Or a politician hoping for campaign contributions and illegal voting drives.)

Wealth equals holiness to a crowd that believes god blesses those he loves with a strong portfolio of real estate. "God loves me best... I've got the bigger house!" Yeah, right. But folks in the heartland believe that. What's worse is that they act upon that belief. If you are poor, you must be guilty of something. If you are rich, you can do no wrong.

Every time I've seen Guiliani, my skin has crawled. It is a visceral reaction, but I don't like liars and fakes. This might explain why I don't like preachers, either. ;^)

BTW, if he is single, why is he wearing a ring?


Big Russ:

Your points about Rudy being Gay and attacking artists seem to be in opposition to each other, that is, for the most part, the people who will be offend by one will have sympathy for the other. Maybe it's just these kinds of mixed messages that got him in to office. It's like it all cancels out. Weird.

Rudy failed to purge racist cops from the NYPD or to stop cops when they were overzealous. He takes credit for the drop in crime (but I think legal abortions being available in NYC earlier than the rest of the country played a bigger part. )

Still, he's not a moron and managed to run the ungovernable city without breaking it.

But his image is made for NYC-- we like brooks brothers and italians and glasses. Nobody else likes that kind of stuff. But we don't like religion much-- it's rude to make a big display of faith... so maybe he's just mixing it up again. Sending mixed messages. I don't know. Maybe it could work.

But I doubt it.

Some people were against Kennedy because he was catholic, not because he was irish. Such was the disparity back then (and until recently) between the catholics and the protestants. So to see a prominent catholic affect the posings of a certain radical branch of protestantism, is rather unnerving.

And while marrying cousins may not be banned (by bible or law) it is generally not considered proper to marry first cousins because of bloodlines, i.e., some diseases are known to be inherited (even years ago) and that would just increase the probability that any children would be so afflicted. In fact, rampant 'jokes' in the 50's and 60's about hillbillies (people isolated in the hills of Tennessee or Arkansas, etc.) marrying their cousins were indicative of an isolated community which no longer exists (thanks to WWII and TV, etc.).

As a west-coaster, I don't trust Guiliani because my gut instinct says he is a lying s.o.b. and slicker than snot. Maybe that says east-coast pol. But the fact that he would go this far, to have a picture taken and published of him in a fundie pose does speak to the lengths he will go to be president. One just knows that underneath that pose he hates them all. And I think it is a pose because of its insincerity.

And for futurebird, if you detect an anti-religious bias on this site, you are probably right. Most of us, I dare say, are agnostic or atheist or at least reality-based. We just have different values, like honesty, integrity, fairness, concern for those less fortunate, concern for the environment, etc., etc. Thankfully, the christians with these same values are finally speaking up and attempting to take back their churches.

'Nuff said.

Excellent job, Big Russ, you just turned Rudy Giuliani into a saint: He's a cuckolded, frustrated closeted homosexual with prostate cancer who can't get laid by his true love, Bernard Kerik. So did his second cousin cheat on him with a man or a woman? Obviously, "black" is the most important detail about that affair, but I was just wondering if it could be *even more* scandalous!

My impression of the first photo of Rudy was "Al Jolson doing his Mammy routine".

I didn't get the religious connection, I got the vaudevillian reaction.

The black professor was a male. Again, see Wayne Barrett (the main thing exposed was Giuliani's Mafia history--his father was a low-level mafioso mobster who served time).
Also, Rudy has a penchant for crossdressing.
He's a sadistic, murderous, closeted-gay republican who supports homophobes, crooks, and racists. That's not "East Coast"--it's the norm these days in republicanland.

In an earlier post I called Guiliani an east-coast pol. Upon reflection, I'd like to change that to New York pol. The former connotation is unfair to the rest of the east coast. Guiliani's affectations seem particularly suitable to New York. New York-ers look down on the rest of the country, who in turn feel completely justified in looking down on New York.

Also, part of the reason his affectations of the 'amen factor' strike a false note with so many is that he seems to have less than a passing relationship with his own catholicism. When rich catholics 'buy' an annulment in order to remarry, that is skirting the tenets of one's faith. To further have extra-marital relations with anyone is to denigrate the faith one claims to possess.

Excuse me, Cactus, New Yorkers don't look down on the rest of the country. They simply ignore the rest of the country. There's a difference.

Uhm, as a Noo Yawker, everyone here is from another part of the country--or another country. Perhaps the contempt--which is imaginary on your part--stems from one intelligent person moving away from Idaho sheepfuckers...

Not one to indulge in peeing contests, John Bolton (if, indeed, that is your name), it seems to this Californian that contempt oozes out of every word you posted. In my former life, I had to deal with lots of NewYorkers and their attitude was generally 'why don't you just go away and don't bother me and my important work.' Everything important happens in NYC, except it doesn't.

Nice sentiment, John Bolton. Thanks for your insightful contribution. What are you, from Queens?

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